My position... somewhere in the middle. I don't have casual sex, yet I'm no nun. What can I say? Born in 78, a product of married hippies, sex wasn't exactly something safeguarded in the house. Before I was 10, I was already familiar with a few brow-raising movies, two being Fritz the Cat and Porky's. My parents didn't showcase sexual sides to being, they just didn't hide it - via movies, not as if they got it on in front of me. From their perspective, it was just a part of life.

Maybe it had to do with diseases - hearing about aids every other day, be it tv or radio or print - I was in no rush to catch anything; especially aids. Maybe it also had to do with a few incidences of my childhood that I won't delve into, but needless to say, I went all through high school without dating, which for me also means no sex. I wasn't a prude, just not in a hurry. Sex wasn't a priority. Shortly out of school, I tried casual sex. Didn't work for me. It just didn't feel right, doing such a personal act with someone I hardly cared for.

For me, it means something and should be treated as such. Not saying that it's everything, just not nothing. I enjoyed my sex life while married, yet not running out to fill the space (pun intended). So, somewhere between casual and not-so-casual, that's me.

I'm 28 and pretty much every girl my age wants to f*ck me therefore I don't f*ck any of them, otherwise it would be too risky to my health and lead to other social problems. Moreover, I don't just f*ck any random girl either, I don't care how hot she is. From my experience, even the most sexy girls can be the worst in bed. From my experience, the best sex has always been with someone who you are in love with. Once you have that kind of sex, being truly in love, nothing less can even compare. I have fun, leading the sluts on then dropping them like a bad habit just before the end of the night.. I let them know why I do that too and they usually get a quick reality check unlike any they have had before.

Some people are incapable of love and they go around and have loveless sex, but little do they know the extacy of sex with someone your in love with. To me, sex with someone your not in love with is not even worth it. If my GF is not in the mood then why would I want to have sex with her? She obviously would not be into it. I prefer the top shelf, not well liquor.

Thank you for responding sweecaroline, It is hard to put yourself out there on this subject.



I don't consider myself a nun, or prude either but I am sure others probably do. I am just trying to figure out this hangup of mine. Hopefully others have the courage to address this subject.
I think that is me except I am hung up with the other person these many years with some concern about performance as well as not willing to put myself in a position that I desire anyone.

My advice would be to continue dating... 999 times out of 1000, you can tell on the first few dates whether your compatible or not. Don't bring up your past relationships because no one wants to date someone with baggage like that. Tell them the brief story of your ex, but don't go into details until at least a few months in when it starts to get serious. When it starts to get serious, you open up completely to that person and after that, you can know whether to get serious or not. Don't have sex with them for at least a month and many dates. Tell them that you don't like having sex unless you are in love and you can't love someone until you really know them. That will make the first time even that much better, because you essentially say that you are starting to love each other. Also, if they push too hard, or date other people, etc, while you wait for that love candle to spark, then you know they are not worth getting into bed with. Its hard getting over someone you are with for a long time. You really just have to rewind yourself and start over. Keep the good memories locked away in a vault in your head, they are your private booty. Take the lessons learned from the good memories and apply them to the current memories you are creating. What you did that made your ex happy, will likely make another man happy too. You'll get a similar reaction, maybe better. I've been through 2 bad break ups after long term relationships. It hurts so bad but you have to let go and move on if you want to find love again.

L&L,

Provocative subject!!! For sure!

I am obviously a 'man', and men love differently than 'women'. I make no judgments as the first rule of all contacts between people should be imho, "To each there own."

Myself, I do view love, and sex as two separate things. Sex in love is good, sex without love, but with passion, and respect is good, but sex as portrayed in modern porno is basically flawed.

I bring porno up because the same attitudes there, are predominant in our male dominant society. What's wrong with that? The fact that the woman not only from a love stand point, but from a pleasure standpoint isn't considered anything more than an object. I'm not saying porno is bad, of course I like it, but I like the older stuff better.

The reason being is that their is more passion, and by extension that is showing of somewhat pleasuring females.

In our society from top to bottom, side to side, and all aspects women are not respected for being people, but objects. Laws are rampant in our society, and many others across the world that are geared at nothing more than manipulating, controlling, dominating, and ruling over the feminine energy that is intrinsic to who we are. The Laws suppress this energy.

Er, for safety sake, everything I'm saying should be taken with a grain of salt; as it's an in depth concept, that I may not explain very well. My point is, not only men, but women are kinda screwed up anymore. The reason is due to the suppression of a one half of the two halves that make all of us up.

So, for me, to answer about casual sex, love sex, pleasurable sex, et el, isn't so easy of an answer. The only kind of sex I know doesn't work out too well, and is imho against Natural Law would be treating the partner like an inanimate object.


EDIT TO ADD:
It's interesting to me that with men, sexual climax is almost always guaranteed. With women it's not, but what is expected of a woman is to fake 'it'.... Neither the men care to learn, nor are many women wanting to make them learn how to please.

It's all so very confusing to me. ..

I just came out of the bar. This lady wanted to talk to me. I'm in there with headphones on, by myself, and playing a touchscreen game. So I take off the headphones and say, "what's up". She says that I shouldn't bring the headphones in the bar, because it's not, "normal". I scoff at such notions, and reply, "oh so, you're implying I'm not normal, or at least don't fit into your notion of a societal norm". She replies, "no, I'm saying that women like you here and you're just wearing the headphones. Wake up, idiot." She walks off ...

Point being, I haven't a clue what the women want, and neither do they. If I were to fit into societal norms so easily I wouldn't stick out and the women wouldn't eye me all the time. I think the same can be said of sex in a way. ..

Society says that sex is a part of love, and there's basically no real love without sex sealing the deal. Eh. ... I disagree. Sex is mostly instinctual, but ... love is beyond. There's not only a physical release, but emotional, intellectual, and spiritual. I've put women into crazy organsms ... lets just leave it at that, but never has it been a completely mutual experience in terms of depth and release. I aim to please the woman, and not really worry about myself. So.. .. love really doesn't need sex to be complete. Love is more of an acceptance, imo. It's saying, you are you, I am I, we are the same, yet different, and I respect and admire all of it, flaws and all.

So the way I'm tying this in is that the relationship of sex to love is based on the individuals understanding of love (norm). Some people stick to purely sensual desires, .. a material understanding, and .. I feel sorry for them in a way, but also realize that's just what they know. So basically, just don't worry how anyone else views sex in relation to love. It's all how YOU view it. If it matters to you, and is seen as a component, incorporate it and enjoy every moment! Me, personally, sex is rather superficial and besides the point. The point in any relationship is to grow and allow to grow; to find beauty in that which is fallible yet perfect in (his) her own way.

I am married 13 years and believe it or not have better times now than when we started dating. Honestly we made our 5 year old son out of love and to this day neither of us have strayed or cheated. For us we don't overdo it but when we do it is perfect beyond apprehension. Just my 13 cents.

Sex, yeah it gets me in a lot of trouble it seems.

The thing for me is women Love me and then try to change me, I hope as I am not a kid anymore my next relationship is with someone who loves me for me and doesn't expect me to become something I can never be. It seems like all reasons women are attracted to me are the exact same things they want to eliminate once deeply engaged in a relationship. I spend a lot of time in between study and adventure and writing and art and stuff and I seem to attract needy people who live vicariously through me because they aren't capable themselves of doing the things I do and then try to reign me in and keep me in that box and get really, really, really nutty when they can't...

The biggest problem I see for women in any relationship is that they simply aren't monogamous creatures and torture themselves trying to be and sometimes get really sick from it... I've fallen into the position of being that "guy" women turn to when in need of a quick fix a lot in life... and I see this all the time.

If you really explore the connections between dopamine and oxytocin and serotonin and the cycles women go through they inevitably get really bored in a monogamous relationship (UNLESS) there is A lot of attention (not sexual but emotional and touch from the male)

Too much Sex with a spouse without the touching actually drives women to cheat or at least get unhappy with the guy (who responds by cheating)

Likewise after sometime in a relationship the males testosterone levels start to drop...

Within about 2 years of my last breakup with my ex, MY skin tightened my body fat index decreased and many other things biologically just changed...

I remember distinctly after a period of time one day a woman past by me and I could smell HER again from like 10 ft away and i'm not talking perfume... it was like a part of me had literally died, the animal part and was coming alive again.

Sex itself isn't the key TOUCH is, it's complicated hormonally but per fact, if a woman sleeps with another man and then goes home and cuddles with her hubby, the Oxytocin release will cause her to pair bond deeply with her husband not her lover, the CUDDLE thing for women is biologically really real

I think the key is to be Interesting and work on it, Sex has the opposite effect hormonally, too much of it and you cycle to a place where you want a new mate, too little ditto

enough time apart to want each other

enough sex to not be lacking, but no so much that your hormone triggers the desire for someone else...

and touch, it can't become robotic, the foreplay thing is real, the cuddle thing is real, the intimacy thing is real

without that you just don't get the oxytocin release and you don't continue to deepen the pair bond...

Things you do together and contact that you have and things you share is important for the sexual desire to remain...

First off i wanna say that from what you've said it sounds like we have some things in common.


My view on sex is that I enjoy it tremendously, with the right person. However I haven't had sex in a long, long,long,time because I'm just a not a casual sex type of person. It just doesn't feel right to me, In my mind that is something to be shared by two people that care about each other. That is a special part of myself that I share with a man that I care about , and it wouldn't be special anymore if I just engaged in casual sex for the mere pleasure of sexual gratification. I want more than just sastifying a physical need. There's an intimacy that comes with being in love that you share with no one else and that bond makes the sex so much better. It's not just one thing that has influenced my beliefs on this matter, but several.

It comes down to what you are comfortable with, not what you think is supposed to be normal based on what you see others doing.


I don't mean to offend you by being too personal here. From what you've said it sounds like part of your problem comes from being in an abusive relationship. I don't expect you to respond to that statement here, but if you wish to you can always PM me.

I would say the first step is to eliminate your perceptions about something you want to change, so forget everything you "know" about sex.

The next most important thing is to know yourself, I've never been very good at traditional masterbation, but I can give myself an O by creating a good fantasy with just the smallest amount of touching, and not even touching the business area like what would be required of a man, I can touch my ribs in the right way and get taken to a high level of arousal fast- which is necessary because I have a toddler! ;) So think of your ideal man (or woman, or both!) and create a very exciting situation based on what ever you think might be fun... it's supposed to be kind of fun, so keep it light and easy. Learn to enjoy sexual energy with yourself first.

Some women can't even have an orgasm with only vaginal sex, and since many men, especially those in the "older" category, have no initiative for adventuring a woman's body the way they need to to be the best lover to HER, give up on a man being able to do it by himself- not that that's possible, because this requires communication (silent sex= mundane sex= nothing special=who cares). Unfortunately these men (unless you're a cougar) are also the generation that is only one step away from the evangelical fervor of the beginning of the last century when sex was purely functional and the removal of 50% of the penile tissue became common place at birth ( ) to prevent masturbation (Que angry defense)... Anyways, most men don't have a clue (the single ones at least), and no, I don't recommend faking it because that's going to give him the impression that he's doing a good job when he's not and he's going to try to do the same ineffectual approach next time, which isn't going to get you anywhere either.

So I guess I'm trying to figure out where you want to go from here... do you want to get laid/ give casual sex a try? or are you trying to get to the emotional aspects, so when you eventually find a good partner at some unknown future date that you can be a better lover? are you wanting tips to use sex to forget about a painful relationship? how to increase your sexual energy/ desire? What do you want out of it?

OK, I re-read OP and figured out that you are wanting to accomplish step one;

How to unlearn what you "know" about sex...


This sounds like your perceptions of your mother are that she devalued herself with her indiscriminate promiscuity. Being raised by a single father who was very promiscuous, I know that the impression I had when I was a teenager was; "you get your value from others" and "women are disposable" (talk about a jacked-up conundrum, getting internal value from, or worse, being responsible for the value of someone else that you're going to throw away (or be thrown away by) anyways ). A person who treats a person (sometimes themself) as disposable is the type of person who can't stand her/himself and needs to spend time making internal resolution before they can have a healthy relationship with another.
Often a relationship with a 'nice' person will end quickly because the 'nice' person cannot agree to that reality that the self-dispossessing person has created around themself (self fulfilling prophecy), or the other refuses to be treated poorly from the opposite side of things.

The first step to self confidence is to know that you refuse to allow yourself to be treated badly, that comes from a sense of personal accountability to yourself- you are the only person who will ever be able to stand up for yourself. Think of it this way: anything that another person has ever done to you; you actually did to yourself. EVERYTHING. So you are very powerful then, eh?

Then, you can turn that sinking feeling into a very positive new direction. You can have whatever you are willing to go after and create for yourself, even a fulfilling (for everyone involved) sexual relationship.

This is a step in the right direction, you allowed yourself to remain in a miserable situation because you had a self-imposed duty to prevent your children from having the same negative experience that you had growing up. One thing I've realized is that everyone's life is hard- chances are that your children's emotional trauma came from you being in an unhappy household (the very steps you took to prevent their suffering). If you're like many in the 'older' generation you tried to hide all of the negativity and I'm sorry but your kids knew- they know, if even just intuitively. There's really no way to do the parenting thing 'right' but honesty goes a long way, even years later.

This is just really sad to me, which is ok, but remember that this was all done with your consent, provided by your willingness to give your power away and be abused- a confused and unempowered lover is probably not going to be a great lover, but what matters is what you do with it from here.

Ok, I see three fears here;
Afraid of being worthless (like mom)
Afraid of causing suffering for the children
Afraid that you are sexually inept
the second is out of the picture, so maybe some discussion with the kids if you haven't already (about the emotional suffering, not necessarily the sex unless you feel that it needs to be resolved with them- like if they knew about the cheating)- then you can forget that one. The first one is one you really have to do for yourself, though I will tell you that I believe that every woman is a goddess in her own right. The third; proceed to step two above and remember, practice makes perfect . You will be very confident if you know what you want and you know how to get it from yourself (do!) or another (ask!)- those two things will make you absolutely great in bed.

So move forward; get on with reconciling the past, but at some point you're going to realize that you have to leave messed-up as good enough and DONE. Please ask questions, I am like Chiron on this topic, not that I'm proud, but it makes for insanely good art.

edit: I did not mean to say your kids were traumatized! I'm just talking about their relative experience. No offense intended!

I've been on disability for around 7 years and have been celibate during that time.......as best I know. Having been diagnosed as having alters and missing time and recalling some questionable events that were so unlikely, that they could be considered delusions or even preferred that way.

The idea of sharing an apartment and or bed with ANYONE ( even one of my adult children on a visit) triggers my paranoias and their typical negative scenarios. Even an occasional mouse in the apartment was conflicting. Everything as if becomes a test or a game.

Now in my 50's, many women my age and that use the personals, look so old or just older than me, that I cringe all the more. The younger ones are likely gold diggers and players and I've also realized (long ago) that I don't have what they want either. Women in the personals that want to go dancing etc. etc. I'm basically a laid back boring homebody and I don't really need a homely twin sister either.

I've been in situations with older females as if suggesting a relationship, but at this point with the fear of HIV, Herpes, etc, I want to believe I've survived that threat and if I do have it, I don't want to share it and especially contract it over some short lived and awkward disappointing sex.

So, I guess I'm a born again virgin. I don't work, I don't smoke anymore and I don't drink anymore. I know I need an overhaul, but also feel like I've put myself out to pasture and prefer to be alone to avoid more schizo type drama-trauma in my life.

Most men likely fear the day they'll become impotent and taking meds that take away the personal ability to relieve the pressures can be kinda traumatic. I don't think I'm being selfish, just realistic.

I am somewhat relieved that I've lost that loving feeling or labido to a certain degree.

One other thing that's confusing is the notion that I get involved with someone and cause anguish and or jealousy with someone else I might prefer.

I guess I'm saving myself from myself and others. I'm on the wagon, but not dead yet.


Two failed marriages and the loss of two families with children, does make me want to do the snip, but I've heard and read that can actually contribute to prostate or related cancers. Of course, sitting on my ass too much on the computer isn't healthy either. But going out exposes me to others and what they might be thinking......


There's always some song out there to vent over.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_P-v1BV ... re=related

What does it say about a guy that likes watching Two and a half Men, South Park and Family Guy?

Wow this is a great board. There are still decent people out there thank u all. :). Happy Friday!!!

Yes there are! Seekers of truth tend to be quite the decent chaps. We're sprinkled all over the place, but flock to sites like this one.

Cheers to decency, seekers of truth, and shtf411 ..



Happy Friday!

I just found a new respect for this group for all the open, honest and thoughtful replies. Thanks to everyone.

Opti


So men do judge performance. I expect women do as well. I have equated performance with varied experience. Don't know if that is true or not.


But apparently performance is a moot issue if you love someone, at least for you.

As for dating, I really don't like to date. I hate getting stuck with someone that bores me for an entire evening . It doesn't take me but a few minutes to determine if I want to go out with someone. It is either there or it isn't and looks do nothing for me.

Sancho, lots of interesting stuff in your post. Would you mind elaborating on the below


As for your comment
And that is the gist of my question/concern. I don't really believe there is a right or wrong about sex. I simply do not understand sex without love. Maybe it is age and not having the raging hormones of youth. And that is not to say that without the hormones that desire in and of itself is never there. The very thought of someone touching me intimately without love is repulsive. Where did this come from? Perhaps from the disgust with myself for submitting to my ex out of fear of reprisal. Or maybe it is just instinctual and that is why I was disgusted with myself and was not able to be fulfilled. Sort of 'which came first, the chicken or the egg'.

Seems like a lot of questions in this post already so I will wait and come back to some other very thoughtful/profound posts a little later. It really is a lot for me to absorb and I had a severe anxiety attack before opening this. Not sure if it was this topic or my frequent Friday anxiety.

One thing we seem to be forgetting, the experience.

Im not saying we should be sluttin it up around town, but there are some randoms i wouldn't take back for anything in the world.

It may not be a deep connection you have with someone you meet for one night, or maybe it is.

But the experience of sharing a brief unedited moment of your life with somebody else can be amazing. And special.

Of course this is all coming from a caveman.

Sex is different for all of us. The important thing is to never allow yourself or others to use sex as a tool or weapon.

The experience may have just been one sided and that's not what I'd call sucessful and memorable unless you're a predator instead of a lover.

Thats true, I wouldnt really know the extent of the other persons experience.

But it's easy to tell when someone is genuine, and having a genuinely good time.

Easy for a gentleman anyways.