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Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

36 posts • Page 1 of 21, 2

Poll ended at Tue Jan 05, 2010 4:27 am

Do we need a revolution?

Yes
25
86%
No
4
14%
 
Total votes : 29
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warrenb

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:27 am

Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Share It:

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  • Do we need, or are we headed towards a revolution?
  • What's the worst that could happen if we had one?
  • Would there be positives outcomes? If so, what would they be?




Free poster/Flyer:
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Last edited by warrenb on Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the US media. ~ Noam Chomsky
A message from the Iraqi Resistance
"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness."~ Robert Heinlein
Who is the worse enemy of the American people, Iran or the government in Washington and the media whores who serve it?
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MissAFortiori

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:28 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Yes, I think we honestly do. The system is broke.

I want it to be non-violent tho.
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whitewave

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:35 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Define revolution.

Political revolution?
Armed revolution?
Ideological revolution?
Moral revolution?
Cultural revolution?

I think America needs "change we can believe in" (which doesn't include Obama at any level).
I think taking up arms against the government is suicidal and ultimately counter productive.
I think we're already in a moral and cultural revolution which will not end well.

Yes, I think we need an ideological revolution.
If I was born yon lordling's slave; by nature's law designed...why was an independent wish ever planted in my mind?-Robert Burns
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zuzzeebelubah

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:36 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

War is serious action, and although I have never been there I have enough family members that have to realize it is hell. Personally I could never go to war for an idea, only for an action.
Last edited by zuzzeebelubah on Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Ocker

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:44 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

You guys need to do something your debt is way out of control. The US is still spending your tax money in foreign countries.

And the US has no possible means of debt relief in the near future

Ocker
Conformity is the jailer of freedom Rebellion is the time for change
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Exile1981

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:46 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Do I wat one? no
Do we need one? not sure
Are we headed for one? We are on the express train and not many stops left to pull this baby out of that disaster.
I see banned people.... at http://www.shtf411.com
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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 4:47 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Change, you got it!

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warrenb

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:14 am

The Critical Unraveling of U.S. Society

By David DeGraw
The Public Record
Nov 19th, 2009

Report Contents:
———————I: U.S. Societal Breakdown
———————II: Environmental Crisis
———————III: The Obama Myth
———————IV: Economic Coup – Theft of Trillions
———————V: National Emergency

Download Full Report in PDF format
http://ampedstatus.com/us-critical-unraveling.pdf

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The economic elite have launched an attack on the U.S.
public and society is unraveling at an increased rate.

I: U.S. Societal Breakdown

The Critical Unraveling of U.S. Society: We are in a NATIONAL EMERGENCYYou may have missed it in the mainstream news media, but statistical societal indicators are reading red across the board. Before exposing the root causes of this breakdown, let’s look at some vital statistics and facts:

* The inequality of wealth in the United States is soaring to an unprecedented level. The US already had the highest inequality of wealth in the industrialized world prior to the financial crisis. Since the crisis, which has hit the middle class and poor much harder than the top one percent, the gap between the top one percent and the remaining 99% of the US population has grown to a record high.

* As the stock market went over the 10,000 mark and just surged to a 13-month high, the three big banks that took taxpayer money and benefit the most from the government bailout have just set a new global economic record by issuing $30 billion in annual bonuses this year, “up 60 percent from last year.” Bloomberg reported: “Goldman Sachs, the most profitable securities firm in Wall Street history, had a record profit in the first nine months of this year and set aside $16.7 billion for compensation expenses.” Goldman Sachs is on pace for the best year in the firm’s history, they are also benefiting by only paying 1% in taxes.

* The profits of the economic elite are “now underwritten by taxpayers with $23.7 trillion worth of national wealth.”

As the looting is occurring at the top, the US middle class is just beginning to collapse.

* Workers between the age of 55 – 60, who have worked for 20 – 29 years, have lost an average of 25 percent off their 401k. During the same time period, the wealth of the 400 richest Americans went up by $30 billion, bringing their total combined wealth to $1.57 trillion.

* Home foreclosure filings “hit a record high in the third quarter [of 2009]… They were the worst three months of all time… 937,840 homes received a foreclosure letter” in this three month period. “3.4 million homes are expected to enter foreclosure by year’s end, with some experts estimating that next year will be even worse.”

President Obama has enacted a $75 billion taxpayer funded program that has been a spectacular failure in stemming the foreclosure crisis and has proven to be another massive waste of billions of taxpayer dollars.

* 25 Million people are unemployed or underemployed.

This means we have 25 million people who urgently need to increase their income, and they’re quickly running out of options. The unemployment rate is expected to rise further and remain high for several years. “The president’s chief economic adviser warned that the nation’s unemployment rate could stay ‘unacceptably high’ for years to come.”

The NY Times reports: “Americans now confront a job market that is bleaker than ever in the current recession, and employment prospects are still getting worse. Job seekers now outnumber openings six to one, the worst ratio since the government began tracking…” As this ratio continues to grow, it will lead to a further reduction in wages – average worker wages have seen a sharp decline over the past year.

Economist Nouriel Roubini, a man who accurately predicted our current crisis, just reported on unemployment stating: “Think the worst is over? Wrong. Conditions in the U.S. labor markets are awful and worsening…. So we can expect that job losses will continue until the end of 2010 at the earliest. In other words, if you are unemployed and looking for work and just waiting for the economy to turn the corner, you had better hunker down. All the economic numbers suggest this will take a while. The jobs just are not coming back.”

* As the few elite banks thrive, there have been 123 US bank failures thus far this year. Recently, three banks that the government declared “healthy” and gave taxpayer money to have folded. The Wall Street Journal reports: “U.S. regulators have seized or threatened at least 27 banks that got capital infusions from the Troubled Asset Relief Program, including some lenders government officials knew were troubled when they awarded the money. The troubles put taxpayers at risk of losing as much as $5.1 billion invested in the banks since TARP was launched in October 2008.”

* As bankruptcies surge across the board, 10 US states are on the verge of bankruptcy, with several ready to declare a financial state of emergency. California, Arizona, Florida, Illinois, Michigan, Nevada, New Jersey, Oregon, Rhode Island and Wisconsin are all “barreling toward economic disaster, raising the likelihood of higher taxes, more government layoffs and deep cuts in services.”

This is occurring at a time when the “federal budget deficit for the fiscal year that just ended was $1.4 trillion, nearly a trillion dollars greater than the year before.” In total, “US public debt topped 12 trillion dollars for the first time in history… The public debt topped 10 trillion dollars in September 2008. The debt is quickly approaching the statutory limit of 12.104 trillion dollars, meaning Congress would have to raise the ceiling to prevent a shutdown of government operations.”

Economist Dean Baker explains the risk of running such a large deficit: “The debt limit must be increased at regular intervals in order to allow the government to function normally because the government is currently operating at a deficit. If the debt limit is not passed, then at some point the government will not be able to pay workers and contractors. It won’t be able to send out Social Security checks or make payments for Medicaid and unemployment insurance to state governments. And, it will not be able to make interest payments on government bonds, effectively defaulting on the national debt.”

Needless to say, all of this will make life drastically more difficult for citizens of the US. As the middle class continues on the path of economic decline, the number of citizens living in poverty has already hit an all time high.

* Although the government’s official figure tries to low-ball the number, 47.4 Million US citizens live in poverty, and the US poverty rate is the highest in the industrialized world.

Predictably, homelessness is rising at an increased rate as well. “The US government does not tally the numbers but interested organisations say that more than 3 million people were homeless at some point over the past year…. The fastest growing segment of the homeless population is families with children.”

Children have been hit especially hard by the economic crisis:

* 50% of US children, one out of every two children, will need to use food stamps to eat.

One out of every two children in the United States of America will need to use a food stamp… to EAT!

If you didn’t think starvation was a serious threat in the US, just read this new Washington Post report: “The nation’s economic crisis has catapulted the number of Americans who lack enough food to the highest level since the government has been keeping track, according to a new federal report, which shows that nearly 50 million people — including almost one child in four — struggled last year to get enough to eat… Several independent advocates and policy experts on hunger said that they had been bracing for the latest report to show deepening shortages, but that they were nevertheless astonished by how much the problem has worsened. ‘This is unthinkable. It’s like we are living in a Third World country,’ said Vicki Escarra, president of Feeding America.”

The United States Department of Agriculture released these findings in a study that was completed in December 2008, which means these numbers don’t take into account the millions more unemployed throughout 2009. The numbers of people living in poverty and struggling to eat has seen a significant increase since then.

This a national tragedy. But it gets much worse.

* In 2008, according to the Census Bureau, the number of US citizens without healthcare grew to a record 46.3 million. “The new figures, however, understate the severity of the economic downturn because a large portion of nation’s job losses and unemployment rate increases occurred after the Census survey data was collected in March as part of the annual Current Population Survey.”

* Lack of health Insurance has caused 45,000 preventable U.S. citizen deaths in the past year. The American Journal of Medicine recently released a study that stated “Nearly two out of three bankruptcies stem from medical bills, and even people with health insurance face financial disaster if they experience a serious illness.”

A Johns Hopkins Children’s Center study reported that 17,000 children have died due to lack of healthcare. You can also add in a recent report that revealed that 2,266 US Veterans have died in 2008 due to lack of insurance.

The 50 million now uninsured and the 45,000 preventable deaths per year statistics are expected to drastically rise over the next few years. As the Senate continues to strip meaningful amendments from a healthcare bill that wouldn’t even take effect until 2013, it has become clear that, despite the media hype, the healthcare bill is going to fall far short of meaningful reform and continue to rig the game in favor of large insurance company profits at the expense of the US population. With the highest cost healthcare in the world, current trends will continue and much needed change is not on the horizon.

Never before has the United States had so many citizens with so little means, little to no income and heavy debt. Debt and costs of living have now shackled US citizens just as it has shackled people throughout the world. The economic hit men have now hit the US as well and millions of US citizens are now effectively sentenced to a slow death.

Economic Imperial blowback has hit the mainland.

And the clock is ticking louder by the day…

Here’s another fact for you:

* The gun and ammunition manufacturing industry in the United States has over 200 companies producing billions of dollars in annual revenues. This huge manufacturing base cannot fulfill demand quickly enough. The demand for guns and ammunition has hit a record high and the gun industry cannot produce enough bullets to keep up with orders.

American’s are arming themselves to the teeth!

* In the past year, 100 new armed militia groups have been formed, as militia members have doubled in numbers. Federal authorities are gravely concerned about the “uptick in militia activities.” One federal authority recently said, “All it’s lacking is a spark. I think it’s only a matter of time before you see threats and violence.”

So let’s breakdown these numbers.

You have a population of 50 million people who are in desperate need of money, they most likely have no health insurance and can’t afford to get healthcare or help of any kind. Part of this population probably also has loved ones who can’t get life sustaining medical treatments, or loved ones that have already died due to lack of costly medical treatment. The clock is ticking loud for these people and they are running out of options fast, and time delayed is time closer to death.

While the richest one percent have never had it so good, a significant percentage of the US population now has firsthand experience in this. Millions upon millions of Americans are poor, broke, struggling, starving, desperate… and armed.

We are sitting on a powder keg!

We are now witnessing the critical unraveling of US society.

- – - – - – - – - – - -

II: Environmental Crisis

Add to this picture an environmental crisis the likes of which humanity has never faced.

Considering our current economy, what will happen when another extreme weather event like Hurricane Katrina hits a major US city? What will happen when storms, droughts and fires continue to spread with increasing intensity? How many have to die before even modest actions are taken to prevent environmental catastrophe?

Extreme weather events are pounding the globe, it is as if the environment has declared war on us as a species. Humanity has become a polluting cancer in the environmental system, and if we don’t urgently act to stop the bleeding, things are going to get drastically worse in a pace faster than anticipated. And this is not an opinion; it is happening now, there is plenty of empirical evidence that anyone can see before their own eyes, if they care to look.

US public opinion on the climate crisis has been distorted by the mainstream US media in stunning fashion. A recent Pew Research study revealed that only 36 percent of the US population thinks the climate crisis is a result of human activity.

Regardless of your beliefs, due to climate change, we are on the verge of experiencing major water shortages spreading “across the country. Sooner rather than later…” California has already been hit by extreme drought and water is in very short supply. As the Arctic continues to melt, California will continue to experience extreme drought. A new study revealed: “when Arctic sea ice disappears, the jet stream—high-altitude winds with a profound influence on climate—shifts north, moving precipitation away from California.” A recent “sweeping water-reform bill” in California temporarily eased public outcry, but the problem remains. The U.S. is confronted by a serious water crisis.

For a global example, there is currently an extreme drought in East Africa as well, which has 23 million people on the verge of dying from starvation. Due to the drought, crops have been killed in unprecedented fashion. Events of this nature are happening all over the globe.

Of the worldwide record one billion people going hungry, the leading cause is destroyed agriculture due to extreme weather.

As a significant percentage of humanity faces death due to climate change, we are in the midst of our planet’s sixth great extinction. Over 17,000 species are threatened with extinction, “more than one in five of all known mammals, over a quarter of reptiles and 70 percent of plants are under threat.”

The Critical Unraveling of U.S. Society: We are in a NATIONAL EMERGENCYFor those of you unaware, the earth’s ecosystem is a very delicate balance. Being in the midst of the earth’s sixth great extinction is not a matter to be ignored.

The upcoming climate summit in Copenhagen was considered by leaders throughout the world to be the most critical environmental summit in the history of civilization. International headlines read: “We only have months, not years, to save civilization from climate change.”

However, the United States and the head of the United Nations just announced that no legally binding treaties are expected to come out of the summit. This is devastating news!

The reason why no deal will be reached at the summit: the United States is refusing to take necessary action.

In a PR move to calm criticism in advance of the summit, the US and Japan announced a vague agreement to cut greenhouse gas emissions… in 2012. However, the “agreement on this ambitious reduction target could not be reached during the APEC summit, and so was dropped from the draft statement.”

It would be smart of the public relations department to at least get one photo op with Obama actually at the climate summit. Instead of being at the most important summit, perhaps in the history of civilization, it appears Obama will be blowing it off to give his speech on how it feels to win the Nobel Peace Prize… H E L L O.

We are living in an insane asylum.

The Goldman Sachs PR guy is out giving speeches on how cool it is to cast the illusion of peace and hope, while the earth burns.

- – - – - – - – - – - -

III: The Obama Myth

I don’t mean to dismiss the Obama myth, his words, the change we need is real, its just his actions don’t even come close to measuring up. Just read the legal documents he has signed his name to. Read them. His actions are most often the opposite of what he says. I venture to say a 10 year old can recognize that after doing a school day’s worth of research.

Obama is a national tragedy. He is a symbol of the times. He is not a leader, just a symbol. He projects the change we need. He was our shortcut to correcting our diseased political system, a way to rid it of corruption. He symbolized the change millions so desperately need. People came out in the millions for the first time “hoping” if they could work and organize to put him in office, we would have some representation to defend against the economic elite that have put the overwhelming majority of US politicians on the payroll and brought humanity to a breaking point.

People just need to research how the Obama myth was hatched. Goldman Sachs saw Obama early on and said, “He’s our guy!” When Obama became THE MAN in Iowa, he was on the Goldman Sachs pay roll. Goldman financed the psychological operation that is the Obama myth, the Illusion of HOPE – something to keep a suffering nation pacified just a little bit longer. Obama is truly a national tragedy. His failure and inaction has disillusioned millions upon millions of desperate citizens who turned to him as their best chance for justice.

As further evidence of Obama’s duplicity — beyond repeatedly signing his name to documents covering up the Bush Adminstration’s highest crimes and increasing an already bloated military budget — in one of his very first moves as President he put Goldman Sachs’ criminal mastermind Tim Geitner in charge of the treasury.

A new report from the TARP Inspector General further exposes Tim Geithner’s role “in overpayments that put billions of extra tax dollars in the coffers of major Wall Street firms, most notably Goldman Sachs.”

Which brings us to the ultimate theft of wealth in history, and to the root cause of our current crisis.

- – - – - – - – - – - -

IV: Economic Coup – Theft of Trillions

URGENT NATIONAL EMERGENCY: TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS IN PUBLIC WEALTH HAS BEEN STOLEN

This crime makes Bernie Madoff’s look like an elementary school lunch money stickup. No, I’m not talking about the hundreds of billions in the housing crisis scam cooked up by JP Morgan and Goldman Sachs that left millions homeless and investors suckered the world over, or even the $2.75 trillion oil futures market scam that has siphoned 50% of all our spending on gas and fuel.

These huge scams are just diversions from the ultimate crime.

Trillions of dollars, trillions of our money, of our tax money — the money that comes out of your paycheck every week of your working life, all the thousands upon thousands that have been taken away from you and your family and are supposed to fund our government and keep our society functioning — have been handed over to the economic elite, to the Llyod Blankfeins and Jamie Dimons of the world.

Hank Paulson and his confidant Tim Geitner, the Goldman Sachs wonder twins, have looted the US treasury. There has been an economic coup in the United States!

Trillions of our dollars have vanished! You need to understand this!

We have just witnessed the greatest theft of wealth in history, the greatest transfer of wealth from the working class to the economic elite ever. An organized banking cartel has seized the US treasury and they are making up the “laws” and the rules to this rigged game. The covert economy has grown at a staggering rate due to taxpayer-funded injections. As a result of this, economic shackles are just beginning to fall upon the American public like never before. 99% of our nation is now sentenced to a slow death.

Just as economic hit men have done to governments throughout the globe, they have gained complete control of the US government and have now shackled US citizens as well. The economic elite do not want to deal with “spoiled Americans” anymore, that’s how they see it. To them the middle class was always an annoying nuisance to be tolerated so the economy could keep functioning well enough to allow their scams to perpetuate. But once their scam known as the US stock market came crashing down, and they were threatened with losing their ultimate power, they turned to the US middle class and opened fire. “Enough with you, we are taking over your government and stealing your tax money!”

This is exactly what happened!

The economic elite are operating under the belief that the world is theirs, they own it, and to hell with everyone else. They also take the view that as the environment grows more destructive, they don’t want us around to compete for resources.

This is self-evident after some research into policy actions that have been carried out. Research it for yourself!

Recent investigations into the illegal practices of Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan have revealed the US economy and stock market to be a fraud. As more of the world becomes aware of this, the dollar will continue to plummet and the U.S. public will pay a devastating price – things are just beginning to unravel.

The US economy has been hit by a deathblow, it lay in ruins naked and exposed to “Too Big Too Fail” thieves who have raped and pillaged, who are looting public wealth in unprecedented fashion.

The economic elite are vultures feeding off the carcass that is the US economy. The whole political structure has been gutted by corruption. Democracy was the façade that this house of cards was built on – a pyramid scheme that was built on the illusion of law and freedom.

Historians will look back at this time as a period in which corrupt despots ruled the masses with utter short-sighted greed and casted an illusion over the base population to keep the scam rolling along, until the end of the American empire, until the public driven economy came crashing down in a thunderous economic cloud of greed and corruption.

The smoke is still in our eyes, but the masses are beginning to see, to realize.

- – - – - – - – - – - -

V: National Emergency

Many middle class US citizens don’t realize all of this yet, I understand their lack of action and confusion because I have also been bred as a middle class American in the propaganda system known as the US mainstream media, but I’m writing this to let you know…

Our survival instinct has to quickly override our conditioned naiveté and passivity that has been bred into us. We are threatened as a country and a species at the same time.

We, as a nation, must overcome heavy doses of propaganda administered by the mainstream media for hours a day, every day of our existence. Shake off your conditioned naiveté and passivity. This is a brutal world we live in, and we are now at war…

The American dream state is over. It’s time to get real, time to sound the alarm.

I am of the sincere hope that we will be able to rise up as a counterweight to the economic elite. In the overall scheme of things, history has placed us in a pivotal position. We are a vital countervailing force to the economic elite and must immediately start exercising our rights of redress.

People throughout the world understand that the US middle class has to serve as a counterweight to an economic cartel that has brought humanity to a breaking point.

The economic elite also understand this, this is why they have launched a war on us.

Now that our existence is directly threatened as well, people are awaking from a propagandized existence and realizing the gravity of our crisis.

We must sound the alarm and discard our illusions.

It is time to evolve from a state of “Hope” to a state of “Action.”

We desperately need intelligent leadership, free from the shackles of the banking cartel.

We, as a nation, cannot continue to settle for the politics of corruption. We must begin by addressing the root cause of our troubles and hold accountable those directly responsible for the greatest theft of wealth in history.

We must flood the halls of Congress; we must engage our House of Representatives and begin to rein in the economic elite.

This Is A… NATIONAL EMERGENCY

Economic justice is possible, it may be hard to believe here in the US, but a nation of law is still possible. It is possible only if YOU begin to act.

We are 99% of the population, they are only 1%.

The outcome is not assured; we must start organizing on a mass scale.

Take your plight to your representative. SOUND THE ALARM!

We must understand “the fierce urgency of now!”

David DeGraw is the founder and editor of AmpedStatus.com and director of MediaChannel.org. You can reach him at David@AmpedStatus.com.

This report was originally published on AmpedStatus.com.
Last edited by warrenb on Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:43 am, edited 2 times in total.
Any dictator would admire the uniformity and obedience of the US media. ~ Noam Chomsky
A message from the Iraqi Resistance
"The price of freedom is the willingness to do sudden battle, anywhere, any time and with utter recklessness."~ Robert Heinlein
Who is the worse enemy of the American people, Iran or the government in Washington and the media whores who serve it?
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Sancho

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:35 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Absolutely we need a **non violent** revolution. Our government is not ours, but is of the largest criminal mafia out there. There is no compromises with them. I think the best way to achieve this is through actions in line with Gandhi, MLK, etc.

Non violent protest, and more importantly non compliance. We are in fact enslaving ourselves; through subtle suggestions by the Elites. All we need to do is just "sit down", and starve the beast
The American People will have the government they *deserve*
"Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back."
— Heraclitus
Are You That One?
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pack3tg0st

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 5:45 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Revolutions only replace one system with another...

what we need to do, is just stop playing the game...

as a whole...

Then, it doesn' tmatter what the gov't does...

but, revolution will get us nowhere....

Instead of what we want, we'll just get another group of individuals in power with a desire to serve themselves and their children first...

Much like our founding fathers..
"You will always be fond of me. I represent to you all the sins you never had the courage to commit."

"Anti social psychopath"
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TracerBullet

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:41 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

pack3tg0st wrote:Revolutions only replace one system with another...

what we need to do, is just stop playing the game...

as a whole...

Then, it doesn' tmatter what the gov't does...

but, revolution will get us nowhere....

Instead of what we want, we'll just get another group of individuals in power with a desire to serve themselves and their children first...

Much like our founding fathers..


I could not agree more, none compliance is our greatest weapon.
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Betterthanoil85

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 9:42 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

pack3tg0st wrote:Revolutions only replace one system with another...

what we need to do, is just stop playing the game...

as a whole...

Then, it doesn' tmatter what the gov't does...

but, revolution will get us nowhere....

Instead of what we want, we'll just get another group of individuals in power with a desire to serve themselves and their children first...

Much like our founding fathers..


I'm with pack on that idea

http://www.thinkfree.ca

http://www.worldfreemansociety.org

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spectre0o0

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:13 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

maybe we could send the administration one of those nasty letters like obummer did to north korea. it really worked in that situation.we could threaten them with sanctions.i'll bet closing off trade with mexico might light some fires. wouldn't take too much to close off the border crossings..
texans would be in for that. lol

really scolding him might do the trick too. it must mean he's scared of a good yelling at. he thought it would stop N.K.'s nuclear plan. and not even face to face! :w00t:
Last edited by spectre0o0 on Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:17 am, edited 1 time in total.
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NOW IT'S A MONSTER THAT WILL NOT OBEY-steppenwolf

ANY POST/THREAD I CREATE REFLECTS MY OPINION ONLY, AND NOT THAT OF THE STAFF OR OWNERS OF SHTF411.COM
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MitsubishiMothership

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:00 pm

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

We need a Revolution of Awareness....

Gandhi and the Czech Republic proved that non-violent revolutions are possible.

Industrial Hemp would be a massive part of it. Legalising it's production (already 4 states have over-turned the federal ban) would solve the USA and the world's economic problems within a year, and most of the world's environmental problems within 2.
Last edited by MitsubishiMothership on Sun Dec 06, 2009 12:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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musselwhite

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Location: just outside the box (Georgia)

Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:25 pm

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

each state needs to re-claim its sovereignty rejecting allegiance to our current form of "federal" government at all levels on the basis of tyranny and treason.

i wish there were an easier way but our government should be afraid of its people not its people afraid of its government.

And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission. How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror.

Remember, remember, the Fifth of November, the Gunpowder Treason and Plot. I know of no reason why the Gunpowder Treason should ever be forgot... But what of the man? I know his name was Guy Fawkes and I know, in 1605, he attempted to blow up the Houses of Parliament. But who was he really? What was he like? We are told to remember the idea, not the man, because a man can fail. He can be caught, he can be killed and forgotten, but 400 years later, an idea can still change the world. I've witnessed first hand the power of ideas, I've seen people kill in the name of them, and die defending them... but you cannot kiss an idea, cannot touch it, or hold it... ideas do not bleed, they do not feel pain, they do not love... And it is not an idea that I miss, it is a man... A man that made me remember the Fifth of November.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/quotes
http://shtf411.com/destron-fearing-ibm-and-the-holocaust-and-covert-ops-t688.html
" All truth passes through three stages: - First, it is ridiculed. - Second, it is violently opposed. - Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. " Arthur Schopenhauer German philosopher (1788 - 1860) and comes to rest at http://www.SHTF411.com - http://www.jammygrams.com
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wonderworld

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Location: Washington State

Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 6:52 pm

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

If the Soviet Union can be split up, so can we.

I think one is coming whether we start one or not. Martial Law is the suspension of the US Constitution!! We are following the EU. We will not have many rights left.

Sancho, Warren, anyone, What do we do if they are at our home applying these executive orders. Wouldn’t this be a time to protect our families, with whatever method seems appropriate?

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10990 allows the government to take over all modes of transportation and control of highways and seaports.
EXECUTIVE ORDER 10995 allows the government to seize and control the communication media.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10998 allows the government to seize all means of transportation, including personal cars, trucks or vehicles of any kind and total control over all highways, seaports, and waterways.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 10999 allows the government to take over all food resources and farms.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11000 allows the government to mobilize civilians into work brigades under government supervision.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11001 allows the government to take over all health, education and welfare functions.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11002 designates the Postmaster General to operate a national registration of all persons.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11003 allows the government to take over all airports and aircraft, including commercial aircraft.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11004 allows the Housing and Finance Authority to relocate communities, build new housing with public funds, designate areas to be abandoned, and establish new locations for populations.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11005 allows the government to take over railroads, inland waterways and public storage facilities.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11051 specifies the responsibility of the Office of Emergency Planning and gives authorization to put all Executive Orders into effect in times of increased international tensions and economic or financial crisis.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11310 grants authority to the Department of Justice to enforce the plans set out in Executive Orders, to institute industrial support, to establish judicial and legislative liaison, to control all aliens, to operate penal and correctional institutions, and to advise and assist the President.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11049 assigns emergency preparedness function to federal departments and agencies, consolidating 21 operative Executive Orders issued over a fifteen year period.

National Security Act of 1947 allows for the strategic relocation of industries, services, government and other essential economic activities, and to rationalize the requirements for manpower, resources and production facilities.

1950 Defense Production Act gives the President sweeping powers over all aspects of the economy.

Act of August 29, 1916 authorizes the Secretary of the Army, in time of war, to take possession of any transportation system for transporting troops, material, or any other purpose related to the emergency. Expertise analyzing census

International Emergency Economic Powers Act enables the President to seize the property of a foreign country or national. These powers were transferred to FEMA in a sweeping consolidation in 1979.
For here we are not afraid to follow truth wherever it may lead...
Thomas Jefferson
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ExMislTech

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:08 pm

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

whitewave wrote:Define revolution.

Political revolution?
Armed revolution?
Ideological revolution?
Moral revolution?
Cultural revolution?

I think America needs "change we can believe in" (which doesn't include Obama at any level).
I think taking up arms against the government is suicidal and ultimately counter productive.
I think we're already in a moral and cultural revolution which will not end well.

Yes, I think we need an ideological revolution.


I totally agree with Whitewave here.

I agree with LucentEnigma as well, especially on "STARVE THE BEAST".

But I think we will see what has happened in the past, and that is ugly.

History doesn't ALWAYS repeat itself, but you will get better odds
from it than vegas or the lottery.

As for warren's questions:

* Do we need, or are we headed towards a revolution?

We need a top to bottom change in the way the country is run, but
I think the foundation of the constitution is still the best guideline.

If things continue down the road to Zimbabwe here then there
are DAMN good odds that we will see a violent revolution here
IF the government decides that is what it is willing to do.

The only thing I see averting this is if some of the NWO keystones
like Soros, Rockefeller, and several others are exposed for what
they are like Gore has for Climategate.

It will take mass outrage and public hearings, and great condemnation
of them all to get them out of the loop, and to awaken the public.

My money is still on violent revolution at this point as Gerald Celente
and many others have predicted.

* What's the worst that could happen if we had one?

I do not think you or anyone else wants the answer to that question
if you knew my answer and knew how possible it could be.

If we had a violent revolution we could see something on par
with the civil war in which more ppl died than all the other wars
the US fought in combined.

To take it a step further some exterior force takes advantage of
the moment of weakness and WW3 breaks out.

I FULLY expect Chinese UN forces on the west coast,
and EU and other UN forces on the East Coast.

The Aztlan crowd south of the border taking their game plan from
our CIA has sold drugs to buy guns and stages their Reconquista
of the SW USA for the new Aztlan by La Raza ( The Race ).

US Refugees flood into Canada and Mexico using up scarce
resources there and the locals turn on them and it gets even uglier.

"This has all happened before, it just wasn't here."


* Would there be positives outcomes? If so, what would they be?


Maybe the NWO plan could be averted, but I doubt it.

Maybe some of the key players in the NWO will be brought to justice
or better yet impaled on a pike on the side of the road.

Maybe the whole country will realize after the fact that Ron Paul
had a lot of good points and ideas.

I do not think any of these positive aspects will take place,
or if they do they will be minor in scope.

In the past history has shown that most often after the fall of a
republic or democracy a tyrannical style of government replaces it.

Though by our own measures here we have seen we are sliding
into tyranny with a few of the new laws that have been passed.

The ppl at FARMWARS have made that abundantly clear.
Last edited by ExMislTech on Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:39 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Trillions for banksters, suit wearing gangsters, globalist gluttony, common man's misery,
Only at the end, did most see the trend. ~ a rhyme by Me
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fs_ogSbQFbM
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lucentenigma

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Location: NWO Prison

Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 7:10 pm

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

Yes we need a revolution - non-violent.

The corporations and their whore of a government need our dollars, they need us to spend.

As a whole our power comes through our wallets, not at the voting booth.

Protesting is weak we need to starve the beast indeed, non-violent civil disobedience.

The problem is we need to get organized and get the message out there...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_disobedience
Take away the right to say "fuck" and you take away the right to say "fuck the government." ~Lenny Bruce

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DeerCrusher

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Post Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:27 pm

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

What’s with this Gandhi shit? Those of you that think that a peaceful protest is the answer have been watching too many Disney movies. Those on the Hill have been getting their way for so long with little protest that they feel invincible. For example;

85 to 90 percent of Americans want our borders secured. We are ignored.

Over 60 percent of Americans don’t want government takeover of our healthcare system but, it’s happening anyway.

Most Americans are fed up with runaway government spending but deficit spending has gone up 300% since Obama took over.

Almost every American hates political correctness but we are told to be “tolerant” and face loss of employment and even risk jail if we dare speak the truth.

The government forced us to pay into Social Security and has squandered the money for our retirements and they are not accountable.


These are just a few examples of a government gone elitist. There will be NO real change until blood runs in the streets. I really think that that time will come when countless millions go to retire and the so called “Social Security Trust Fund” is dry. Hint….it’s the Communist Democrats that authorized its raiding in 1968 by the scumbag LBJ
Last edited by DeerCrusher on Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty."

- Thomas Jefferson
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Sancho

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enlightened-4

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Location: Mexico

Post Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:30 am

Re: Do we need a revolution? [poll & discussion]

@Wonderworld,

I absolutely think peaceful mass grassroots Non compliance is the way to go. Freeman on the land! Starve the beast, and I don't see a problem with using the resources of the beast to help. The fact is we paid for everything, It's our beast, but it's been usurped. As far as at your door, my door etc., well that crossed my mind the other day. In general run of the mill crap where it is just harassment, a video camera is the best defense. Load that up on the Net as fast you can! The bastards never like being outed.

Beyond that, if you mean they are seriously getting ready to knock down your door, and alter your life in a way that violates all of your Rights; where you feel they are literally there to destroy what you have??? I cannot speak for you, but I will defend myself in my animal "den". It is not being offensive, but literally fighting for the Right to Life! Patrick Henry can sum up my feelings.""Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery? Forbid it, Almighty God! I know not what course others may take; but as for me, give me liberty or give me death!""

@DeerCrusher,

The problem with armed anything is that it becomes twisted, and the message becomes skewed. I won't argue with you, but recommend you research both the Russian Revolution, and the Bolshevik Takeover. In a nutshell the Bolsheviks stood by encouraging the Russian People to fight the Czar. When both sides were exhausted, and no longer fighting is when the Bolsheviks sprang forth.

This can be played out in any number of scenarios today, and it is what I feel is trying to be rallied by different interests.
The American People will have the government they *deserve*
"Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters, and we are lucky to have them, for they make the battle. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back."
— Heraclitus
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